Brave New World
AXEL WANG:
Matsukura-san, what led you into this creative career path?
SUBARU MATSUKURA:
This is probably what I meant when I mentioned the social responsibility that comes with the job at the very beginning of the conversation. In some ways, society demanded this occupation and I responded. Whenever I think about it, I still find it hard to believe, that someone like me, who didn’t even graduate from an art college, is doing this job for a living. There was always an element of luck too, I was hired by a production company right after graduation and was surrounded by fantastic colleagues and seniors. It was beyond my wildest dreams, I loved what I did back then and I love what I do now. There is still an enormous urge within me to create new things. I believe that’s what has kept me going all these years, and without even realising it, I’m already 37 years old with two kids.
AW: Are you inspired by a particular few artists, designers, or anyone in the creative field?
SM: In general, names don’t really bother me, whether it’s a famous artist or an unknown designer, a graffiti artist or just a child who likes to draw, I think anyone who expresses themselves deserves our utmost respect, especially in a society like ours.
During my university years, I attended lectures by the editor, Shigeo Goto (後藤繁雄), at Kyoto University of Art and Design (京都芸術大学) for about four years, despite not being a registered student there. I just wanted to hear Goto-san’s lectures, I apparently took them a whole lot more seriously than a lot of the attending students. (Laughs) If I have to name one person, Goto-san is without a shadow of a doubt my biggest influence. We stay in touch to this day, and occasionally we share drinks. He’s got this survival attitude, being hungry all the time, undeterred by his age, incredibly valiant, he’s always on the front line leading the charge, and for me, that’s just incredible.
AW: I would like to congratulate you on being shortlisted for and winning all these awards in the past, both domestically and internationally, New York, London, Japan, especially the Cannes Lions and the Good Design Award. Those are fantastic achievements. Can you tell us about those experiences, and how do you think the working environment in the creative field in Japan differs from the rest of the world?
SM: I never wanted to participate in any of those awards in the first place. Funny enough, I was somehow pushed by the companies. It’s like Tenkaichi Budokai (天下一武道会), you know, that fighting tournament in Dragon Ball, but for the creatives. I do understand the significance of it, don’t get me wrong, it’s similar to winning a gold medal for athletes. For me, the most fascinating part of the award was being able to experience works from some of the best in the industry and learn from them, like what kind of skills and techniques they possessed. You also got the opportunity to speak with these brilliant minds and hear their stories.
Although I’m not the best person to comment on the creative industry overseas, I presume that it doesn’t differ much from what we have here. Of course, there are bound to be differences, but at the end of the day, it all boils down to the idea and the final product. I think right now, we have so many runners who are prepared and motivated to amaze the world, it’s a matter of who can come up with the most original, the most interesting, or the coolest idea. The fastest will win, regardless of nationality, on this racing track.
AW: I arrived in the UK from China at a young age. After spending almost 20 years there, I have now relocated to Nagoya for work. I feel that your immediate surroundings and the environment play a huge part in influencing you and shaping your mindset. Growing up in Japan and spending your entire professional career here, the country is generally regarded as a fairly closed but culturally rich society. To what extent do you think the way of “Wa (和)” has influenced you, or would you say you prefer not to be labelled as “Japanese”?
SM: I was born in the rural area of Furano (富良野), Hokkaidō (北海道), and raised in Sapporo (札幌). Culture was scarce, and I was desperate for it. I often found myself in the Sapporo Art Park (札幌芸術の森), the whole forest was like a museum, and that’s where I encountered the Butterfly Stool by Sori Yanagi1, during middle school I think. It’s a perfect execution of design and art. After I received my first paycheck years after I started working professionally, I bought the stool in a heartbeat. That encounter back then was what ultimately led me to study in Kyoto (京都). The contrast between Hokkaidō and Kyoto was almost intense, to say that I was overwhelmed when I got there was a total understatement. Coming to think about it, that was presumably the first time I actually experienced the many sides of Japanese culture.
A lot of companies like Nue exist, and I personally know some of them have advanced outside of Japan. If I’m allowed to be completely honest, that’s not something I’m interested in. I can’t pinpoint a specific reason, I had turned down opportunities to work overseas. I guess I just felt it was troublesome. From time to time, I get to visit various smaller towns across the country because of work. One word I would use to describe Japan is “kimyō (奇妙)” — eccentric, curious and perhaps exquisite too. Even though I grew up in the nature of Hokkaidō, which is unmistakably part of Japan, I have always been struck by the distance between where I was raised and the idea of Japan that everyone is familiar with, almost as if I had always been in a foreign land. It’s kind of fascinating. For me, the country still has so much to unearth and experience, the food culture, the matsuri (祭) in all those different towns and cities remain exciting and inspiring to this day.
I don’t like to judge people by their nationalities. I bet you hear this a lot, but it’s true. I am Japanese, I know that for a fact, and I’m comfortable with it, it’s not exactly a label that can be peeled off, and yet I just don’t think anyone should be defined by this label of nationality. It’s “you” as a human being that matters to me. Not only where you were born or raised, but also your immediate surroundings, like you said, and further, your life experience, who you have met, the things you have learnt, what you have achieved and even your failures, all contribute to shaping your character. There are more than 7 billion people on the planet, and they all have different stories, imagine that!
I remember a time during university when I was invited to an art fair in Tokyo, and I ended up spending a month living on the rooftop of some random house in Bakurochō (馬喰町) with several other people, like we were all homeless, which was pretty much the whole point of it: how to live a life when you have absolutely nothing. The greatest joy was when we all gathered and shared our meals. We learnt to make tents and shelters, sat on the rooftop, and watched the birds. I obviously knew this would end and my life would return to normal, but for a moment I was away from everything, my mind was empty. That was an incredible and valuable experience for someone like me from Hokkaidō. It was the time when I realised that, eventually, we are all humans and all created equally, social stigma or the idea of being “Japanese” no longer holds any significance, as it is merely a categorisation, just another label.
AW: You graduated from Ritsumeikan University (立命館大学) in Kyoto, and are now living and working there in the city. What draws you to Kyoto?
SM: There are about two million people living here in Kyoto. Given its status, it’s not a massive city, but it is filled with a considerable number of universities, art colleges and long-established traders. Relatively, our community is quite small, you may easily bump into acquaintances on the street, meet an artist in a bar, things happen spontaneously over a drink, and you overhear all kinds of stories.
I lived in Tokyo for a while and decided to come back here only because it’s a more engaging city for me. I often see remarkable things happening here that are beyond imagination, it’s difficult to come across that in Tokyo, where things are slightly more restrictive. You occasionally hear that Kyoto people are difficult when it comes to mannerisms and so on, but for me, it’s the most embracing and accepting city I’ve ever lived in.
AW: Now that the state of emergency has been lifted in Japan, were you affected by the lockdown at all?
SM: We were blessed with more work fortunately. As a company, we specialise in dealing with complicated challenges. When society or people lose their way, they tend to value us more. Things are changing now, especially in the art field. Despite the circumstances, I still sense a burst of energy from the industry. I don’t think anyone has the right answer now because the future is not predictable at all, no right strategy exists because none of us has ever experienced this either, so it’s all down to us.
AW: Do you think our lives will be different after this?
SM: It’s devastating, that people are dying because of this. At the same time, I’m thankful to the people who are working and risking their own lives every day so that the rest of us can continue living a normal life. Our society is like a collective body of lives, society grows when each one of us grows. Like after 3.112, that was the time when I felt that we all matured as a group overnight, we all had to. I guess it’s human nature, we grow and learn to respect by experiencing tragedy and sadness. And yes, I think our way of life has already changed. Given that I’m fascinated by human beings, I’m indeed optimistic about humanity, and I’m certain it will change for the better.
AW: A change of topic, if Subaru Matsukura were not the Subaru Matsukura today, who would he be?
SM: An e-sports player, definitely. I’ve been playing games forever, even PlatinumGames3 is one of our clients, one day, I rang their bell, proposed a collaboration, and we started working together. They were one of the developers of games like Bio Hazard (Resident Evil) back then, which was massive when I was a kid, and it was a huge influence.
AW: To the kid dreaming about a future career in the creative industry, what’s your message?
SM: Deep down, I think we are all children, so are you, and so is this 37-year-old middle-aged man. Our existence is the best creative work of mankind. We grow up, we have more rules, we learn to abide by them, and we become adults. “Please eat your meals today without using chopsticks or a fork.” What’s your reaction when you hear that? Sounds weird, right? “Take an alternative route on your way home today, and you will see something different” — These misdirections are all error codes. Because we are all coded to live with the least expense and risk, to behave and to eat properly so that you are not frowned upon, to take the usual way home so you won’t get lost. But who came up with all these codes? Is it society, or maybe your parents? We need to think, about who’s the director of our lives. Children make such a mess when they eat, somehow they always get lost at that age. It’s only when we grow old that we begin to fall into boxes and boxes of rules drawn by we-don’t-even-know-who, and eventually we all turn into replaceable people. My best advice, to any child, as cheesy as this may sound, is to live your own life and build your own world, always question what you see and think again about all the codes that are already written.
AW: Thank you for your time, Matsukura-san. It’s been a real pleasure. Before we wrap up, could you let us know some of your future plans?
SM: I would like to make some games, or anything related to gaming. I’ve been playing Tetris since primary school, and I’m really good at it! Jokes aside, I remember back in the days at ovaqe inc., it generally took about 3 months to complete an advertisement project. Nowadays, it’s mostly hotels, streets and public projects, with bigger enterprises involved. The duration of each project has increased, so it’s harder to predict. Right now, I’m in charge of a community redevelopment project for a fishing village in Fukui (福井) Prefecture. It’s not about having another building or an extra tunnel, but more about human resource development. I can’t go in depth about the strategies, but it’s probably one of the most exciting projects that I’ve worked on.
Meanwhile, we launched a creative studio district last year here in Kyoto called CONCON. It remains under development, consisting of 3 terrace houses and 16 containers, mainly hosting creative and architecture teams like ourselves — offices, a wine bar, an apparel label and even a few monks. You guys should definitely visit!